Maximizing Outcomes – Disposition | S3E8

Welcome to the last regular episode of season 3, Deal Making and Deal Doing, from the A.CRE Audio Series. With both Michael and Spencer, today we talk about disposition. We’re talking about bringing the whole thing full circle – realizing your profits and realizing your strategy. It seems like a very simple thing. If we’ve done everything up to this point correctly, as we’ve discussed and really executed on the plan, you would think that you’re done, but there’s a little bit more to it than that.

When we say disposition, we’re really talking about a sale or an exit, two synonymous terms in the industry. You could say that you exit when you buy, and therefore if you’re not thinking about the exit and don’t have a clear plan in place for that exit at the onset, you’re going to struggle to find success.

Watch, listen, or read below how to maximize your deal outcomes by working until the very end.

Thank you for tuning in with us this special season, and we hope you’ll stick with us in the future!

Maximizing Outcomes | Disposition

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Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:01):

Welcome to the Adventures in CRE audio series. Join Michael Belasco and Spencer Burton as they pull back the curtain on everything commercial real estate, and introduce you to some of the top minds in the industry. If you want to take your skills to the next level and be part of a growing community of CRE professionals across the world, this is for you.

Sam Carlson (00:25):

All right. Well, we did it. I mean, this is the last episode of season three as far as the process, from deal-making to deal doing. Michael Belasco and Spencer Burton. I’m excited to be here today, only because this is the end of a … we’re here in Colorado Springs, Colorado. I’m here with both Michael and Spencer so it’s a ton fun, and today we’re talking about disposition. We’re talking about bringing the whole thing full circle, realizing your profits, realizing your strategy and it seems like a very simple thing. If we’ve done everything up to this point correctly, as we’ve discussed and really executed on the plan, this seems like okay, well, I guess we can end this podcast now, but I think there’s a little bit more to it than that. Let’s go ahead and Spencer, turn it over to you buddy. Frame this out for us and we’ll go from there.

Spencer Burton (01:20):

Disposition is very much doing, but ultimately it’s the conclusion of a plan that was set forward, a vision that was set forward at the very beginning. You could say that you exit. When we say disposition, we’re really talking about a sale or an exit, two synonymous terms in the industry. You could say that you exit when you buy, and therefore if you’re not thinking about the exit and have a clear plan in place for that exit at the onset, you’re going to struggle to find success. Even if it’s cordial and you intend to own it perpetually, understanding what exit options exist, what value you might get at some future point.

Spencer Burton (02:07):

The other interesting thing about exit is understanding the exit at the onset, which helps you assess how much value you’re going to create over some period of time. Sometimes value is just created by growth, inflation, which naturally creates value. Rents grow and therefore the value of your real estate grows. But, in many cases, the reason you’re buying is that you have some plan to add value to the asset. So, the exit is the scoreboard that tells you whether your initial plan was a success or not.

Sam Carlson (02:47):

Your exit … I’m thinking about valuation and underwriting and stuff, it’s the two components which is reversion value and then your cash flow, but this is like the … you said it in a previous episode. It’s like you envision the end goal-

Michael Belasco (03:02):

That’s exactly what I was just thinking, yeah.

Sam Carlson (03:04):

… you go back to the beginning, so you’re discounting back to the present. But anyway. I was thinking to myself as you were saying this Spencer, I was thinking, this is the last episode of season three and we’re talking about disposition. We’re talking about realizing your profits. We’re talking about working with whoever, whatever bodies are going to actually purchase our portfolio or whatever disposition means in your strategy. What’s funny is if you envision in your strategy, in the strategy part of your idea, whatever it is, you have to come up with the idea, come to the disposition, imagine what it’s going to take to get there, and then reverse engineer your way back to it.

Sam Carlson (03:52):

In a way, this is the last episode but this is full circle to this entire process because if we did it right, this is really where we started. Is imagining the end from the beginning. I think any good person in business or in real estate is going to buy off on your ideas based on whether or not you’ve done that correctly. If you’ve done that comprehensively. They can see, “Oh, I can see how we would be able to take that out at the end, that makes a lot of sense to me.” Or not.

Spencer Burton (04:27):

What’s interesting about this step is it really is the fusion of the makers and the doers. The deal makers and the deal doers. It’s the carrying forth of the vision that the deal maker had at the very beginning and then the buy-in by the deal doers, the execution from the deal doers, and then there’s a little bit of deal-making in the disposition phase. In fact, some of the best deal makers are on the disposition teams, and they’re getting the best value. I had an example in the previous episode where I was talking about this hypothetical office building.

Spencer Burton (05:07):

We buy the office building at 60% leased and there’s this opportunity to improve the lobby and to update the facade, and to make some repairs, roll in place leases that are below market to market, to lease-up excess space. Imagine that that vision comes together, the due diligence team does a phenomenal job, it closes, and after the expenses, you’re in the building of say $7 million. You handed it over to the disposition team, and your goal had been 10 million, and the disposition team goes out and look, they make a deal. They can convey to the market an asset that’s worth more than 10 million and the next thing you know it’s 11 or 12 million and they’ve outperformed even the vision that the early deal maker had. It’s a fun exciting time. They call this going full circle on an investment. It’s the conclusion of that, and very much the fusion of these two sides of the real estate coin.

Sam Carlson (06:14):

I’m curious as a person who is not in the disposition department for your company, I’m wondering what that looks like? What is a person who is very skilled at bringing to conclusion a strategy and maximizing the value of a portfolio for example, what does that person do? How do they really … because you don’t want to be laissez-faire and just say, “Hey, well, we were here, we were expecting 10 million from this.” Whatever the case may be. What does it look like to be exceptional at disposition?

Spencer Burton (06:55):

I’ll take this one. I’ve never sat on a disposition team, but I’ve been a land broker where I’ve represented sellers on transactions, and I’ve seen a lot of disposition teams in my career, and I can tell you what makes a great disposition team, what makes an average disposition team. Let me speak to the disposition teams. The teams that are proactive, they view the selling of the asset as their primary job and not the management of the process of selling. It’s an important distinction. Those that are proactive teams are exceptional at this. What I mean by that is, look, most assets in commercial real estate are sold by a broker, and in almost all cases, they should be.

Spencer Burton (07:47):

The brokers in the audience, I’m sure love hearing that, but I say that genuinely, brokers add incredible value to the process. We can get into why, maybe we should talk about why brokers are so important to the process. But before I get to that, I want to make the point. The disposition team, a professional who manages the disposition, their first job is to coordinate with the asset management team the right time, and timing is everything. The right time to bring an asset to market. Once that has been established, their next job is to assemble the right team. The right team is a broker and that broker’s team, that is the right broker for the asset and the time, and that’s important. You don’t find your favorite broker and that broker sells all of your assets.

Spencer Burton (08:39):

That’s not the right way to go about this. There are certain brokers that are right for a given asset. The disposition team, their job is to identify who that broker is. That’s a process where they go to market, they request broker opinions of value. They bring in a slate of those BPOs. They view, and in that also there’s a marketing plan that each broker has, and the broker says, “Okay, this is why I’m the best person or team to represent the asset.” Then that team, that disposition team goes, “Okay, let’s select a broker who’s going to be the right broker.” But the reason I say proactive, so anyone can do that. Anyone can go out and request BPO’s and then select the one that’s the lowest commission, or the broker who has the best experience. But a proactive disposition professional formulates a plan of his or her own, that highlights what makes this asset special and unique.

Spencer Burton (09:44):

In doing so, what they really are saying is, why is this worth more than an equivalent asset out there? They develop a story that can be told, and then they get the broker’s buy-in on that story, such that the broker isn’t out there just offering it to the market. But the broker is out there actually telling the story, that ultimately the disposition team developed at that stage,

Michael Belasco (10:10):

There’s a strategy even when you’re selecting your team, you’re getting the BOVs, they’re coming in. You want to hear from the brokers, you have a story that you’ve developed, but you want to hear if they get it, and that’s the team you want. When you’re selecting a broker, you might get these BOVs, you have your own vision. They give you a price. A lot of times people will look up, who’s going to sell this for the lowest cap rate. Who’s going to go out there and think they could sell it for the highest price. That’s one of many metrics to be looking at, but who are those brokers that actually really get your story? If none of them do, then you have this job to do, which is go out there and tell that story, and get them to understand.

Sam Carlson (10:48):

It’s interesting because my background and my experience and what I spent almost all of my time studying and learning, is all about marketing storytelling, unique advantages, things along those lines. As I’m sitting here listening to you guys, I’m like, these guys are just marketers. That’s what they are. Their idea is to put together a story. The interesting part about that is what most people do when they go and they try and sell something, is they play checkers. They put out, we’re going to lower our commissions. The very straightforward black and white situations that you would be familiar with. But when I look at why any business or any product ever works, any investment pitch ever works, and by the way, this is something that I have a decade of experience in learning and teaching and doing, it always comes down to who’s going to buy it?

Sam Carlson (11:52):

We’re going to start with, who’s going to buy it? Who is the ideal purchaser of the portfolio or whatever we’re selling? Then we need to identify that person, and we really need to deep dive and deconstruct that person’s needs and wants. Their situational awareness of what’s going on in the market, whatever it is. We need to have a three-dimensional avatar of that person. Then to your point where you were talking about is the story, stories are the mechanism for delivery, but every story needs to carry with it some, we call it the big domino. The big domino is a unique advantage. When you push that big domino over, everything else falls into place. That’s an exercise in A, understanding the end buyer, and B, understanding the competition. Because if you’re just doing the same thing as everybody else, then you don’t really look that special.

Sam Carlson (12:55):

Again, I would say, this has to start from the very beginning. This has to start from your strategy. This has to start from your unique advantage. You need to find a way to deliver that message inside of your story side of your pitch. By the way, I think that there’s different personalities and people involved in this transaction, and while the numbers are extremely important, the thing that’s really going to hit home with any person involved, because we are all people, is the right story. The right information up front. We call that the lead in copyright. The lead. What is the thing that’s going to hook them? What’s the thing that you’re going to put first, that’s going to compel them to read what’s second? Then that second thing compelled them to read what’s third, and so on and so forth until you’ve gone through the whole OEM or whatever it is, and you’re like, “Hey, this is an amazing opportunity.”

Sam Carlson (13:54):

It seems to me like a skilled disposition team is a skilled marketing team, is a skilled team that understands that whatever they do for their company, they need to carry, start with the beginning in mind that strategy, and then carry it through to the marketplace.

Spencer Burton (14:15):

Yeah. You brought up on episode or two back, the idea of managing by numbers. At a certain stage, the disposition team has engaged a broker, and that broker has taken the deal to market. At that stage, it’s essential that the disposition team is managing by numbers. They want to understand how many calls are being made. How many OEMs are going out, at what clip? There ought to be regular meetings where you review those key performance indicators to understand how well received the offering is in the market. Maybe make adjustments as feedback starts coming in from interested buyers or uninterested buyers. Now the disposition team turns from strategist and marketer to a manager of a process, that it’s a switch almost. Not a switch flipping, but yeah, go ahead.

Michael Belasco (15:30):

It’s funny, you talk about regular meetings, check-ins, the communication, it’s this running theme of how this whole process works, but back to the process, and for those that are curious about what’s going on. We went from telling a story, to now we’re managing all the offers or opportunities that are coming in the door. There’s a little bit of a gap. I think it’s worth just sharing for those that have not gone through it, where you solicit these beats, you get these brokers’ opinions of values. They come in, you then have this process by which you interview, and you get a feel for the broker and what they have to offer, who their clientele might be that might be interested, basically who they could reach out to.

Michael Belasco (16:20):

You look at that, you look at everything that they’re offering and you make that selection. Once you pick them, there are negotiation fees, there are all these things that you negotiate within that fee. It could be fees related to timing. Usually, it’s pretty static and there’s a market. Yeah, market rate, but there’s always a negotiation there. Then at that point, there’s an OEM, there’s a development of an OEM, and that’s just as critical to telling the story is, and you had hit on it, but there’s this OEM creation, which is very much, some people just leave it to the broker. I’ve had personal experiences where we were just part and parcel of the design team. We were in the words because it was so critical that this story was told correctly. You get to that point, get that LMS, you get ready, and then you go out to market and start. That’s when the whole process really kicks off when you start to interface with the market. I just wanted to give that color to catch up to where-

Spencer Burton (17:20):

That was helpful then to understand the process to this point. There, the disposition team B manages the process now. The key skills at that stage really are, insisting on having regular updates and key data communicated back to the disposition.

Michael Belasco (17:48):

This is very much like a broker skill. This is where the broker’s value really comes in. They’re looking at all the offers coming in and deciding who’s real, who is the best buyer of this asset. You get all kinds of offers coming in, some way higher than others, and it’s their job to help, depending on the experience level also of the seller too. There’s a lot of variability there and depending on where you are in what you’re selling, but there is a skill and a value add, and a management component that’s on the broker side of this piece too.

Sam Carlson (18:22):

I wonder if in the context of what it means to have a good broker involved and what it means to have a good OM involved in all that, I wonder what it looks like to see the opposite. What are some things when it’s not a good fit, when disposition goes wrong? What are some of the things?

Michael Belasco (18:42):

I’m going to kick Spencer, you have stories as a buyer, and you’ve seen how the brokers interact with you as a buyer of properties. If we were the sellers of that, we would be very upset. I know you have some good stories.

Spencer Burton (18:59):

A lot of stories. Over the years, you see who the great brokers are, and who are the subpar brokers. I think the first is you want an engaged broker. I know that sounds cliche, but there are certain brokers that they’re so busy, that it’s very clear that they’re not that excited about this listing that they have, and therefore they don’t return your call. They’re short on their email. They really aren’t interested in finding the right buyer. They’re just simply interested in getting a commission.

Michael Belasco (19:46):

A buyer. It doesn’t matter which one.

Spencer Burton (19:49):

They clearly are just there for the commission. It may be that they’re having a bad month, or that may just be they’re not a good broker, but there are those who you can tell all they are in it for is a commission. In reverse, you can see those who truly represent their client, and they’re out there and looking out for the best interest of their client. That means that as a buyer, I call, they’re picking up the phone, they’re talking up the asset, they’re sharing why it’s a great asset. They’re also letting us know what any pitfalls right at the start. “Hey, so you’re aware this is an issue. This is how we think it’s mitigated. If you have any other questions, let me know. I’m happy to send you over some due diligence materials.”

Spencer Burton (20:38):

They are then following up. A few days later, “Hey, have you had a chance to review this? Have you had a chance to review that? Any thoughts, where are you going to end up being?” As they run the process, and now I come back to having been on the disposition side, not necessarily part of the team, but watching the process. Those brokers that are collecting feedback from buyer after buyer that they’re talking to, they’re putting a list together of, and ranking interests by the buyer, and sharing that information with their client. Then they’re tracking that. Those are brokers that truly care about the process, they’re advisors, they’re not salespeople, and that truly is the difference.

Michael Belasco (21:22):

On the other side of that, we’ve had experiences where you call a broker about a property that he’s marketing, and in that same conversation, they start talking about their other deal. This has happened. Talking about their other deals, and us being on the potential buying side of that, look at this broker, and we’re amazed that they would do that. It’s a very bad outcome for the seller, unfortunately, and there are all kinds of stories like that where just the broker’s incentives are, everybody’s selfishly motivated, but it’s just, there’s no tact behind their selfish motivation, and it does not bode well for anybody.

Spencer Burton (22:02):

Some people, many brokers genuinely want the best outcome for their client. Even if that best outcome means less money for the broker.

Michael Belasco (22:16):

We see that time and again actually, even in our day-to-day, it’s all the time, and we know that, so it’s absolutely true.

Spencer Burton (22:24):

But coming back now to what makes a great disposition professional, one of the aspects is being able to select that right broker. To be able to ascertain what’s right. Now, let me tell you a cautionary tale. A while back in my career, a situation where there was an asset that needed to go to market, and the team that was in charge of taking it to market chose the, call it “friend one” of the more senior people. That usually works out and it didn’t work out now. It was a tough time in the market, so of course, everyone can say, “It’s because it was a hard time to sell,” but ironically, the next brokerage team that they took it to was able to get it done.

Spencer Burton (23:14):

But that first team, they weren’t hungry. They actually weren’t experts in this particular area. It was, there was enough uniqueness to this asset that you needed a broker that had a relationship base, that was not the relationship base that the first broker that took it to market had. In the end, we lost some faith in the competency of that disposition team. Picking the right broker for the job is a key skill.

Sam Carlson (23:51):

I wonder if we’ve talked about the broker side. The disposition team. It seems to me like there needs to be a … We talked earlier about a natural tension. I don’t think it’s in the best interest of the disposition team to only see the positive of, let me say it this way, to be married to the initial presentation of the asset. What happens if what you’ve created, doesn’t match the marketplace? What does a good disposition team do then? How do you turn a potential, I’m not going to call it a loser because it doesn’t mean it-

Spencer Burton (24:43):

A dog. That’s what they call them, in real estate.

Sam Carlson (24:47):

How do you salvage a dog? What does that look like?

Spencer Burton (24:52):

You hide it in a larger portfolio. We make the most of it, that those happen. Hopefully, you don’t have to sell, and you can find a more opportune time. Maybe there are some things the asset management team can do to make the asset more attractive, give it 18 months or 24 months, and then take it to market.

Michael Belasco (25:12):

Timing it sometimes helps.

Sam Carlson (25:18):

Anything else we need to share in the realm of disposition? What we’ve been talking about is a lot of, again, the right people, the right story, the right marketing plan, it goes again, we see the end from the beginning. Anything else we need to-

Michael Belasco (25:32):

We didn’t even sell the asset yet. We didn’t even talk about selecting the buyer.

Sam Carlson (25:36):

Go ahead, please.

Michael Belasco (25:39):

There’s a lot more here. We need to figure it out.

Sam Carlson (25:40):

Go for it.

Michael Belasco (25:44):

First of all, there’s a process by which you’re selecting the buyer. If it’s a competitive process, you may have a couple of rounds of that, where you get the initial bids, then you tell everyone to sharpen their pencils, and you tell everyone to sharpen their pencils again. There’s a more formal process.

Spencer Burton (26:02):

Which a great broker manages that process incredibly well. Coached and supported by the disposition team.

Michael Belasco (26:10):

There may be interviews that take place and there’s a lot of different ways to do it. You get through that process. In your experience, is there anything unique about that you’ve seen that’s differentiated through that? It’s pretty standardized or do you see any?

Spencer Burton (26:27):

The good brokers and the good disposition teams know the right process for the asset, and the poor brokers and poor disposition teams stick to one methodology. They’re preferred, and it’s even worse when it’s the easiest. We see brokers in the space we’re currently in, and this again changes every year but in the space we’re currently in where they treat it more like a single-family asset, where rather than having it be a process with a collection of buyers, it’s each buyer is its own individual thing, and they’ll counter each buyer separately. Which to me is beyond ridiculous. Anyway, I don’t want to get too opinionated on the point, but my point is that there’s a right process for each asset, and a good broker and a good disposition team know how to pair that right process with the right asset.

Michael Belasco (27:32):

There’s an art. It’s a bit art, it’s a bit science. You may say, “Wow, I didn’t realize how much interest there was going to be.” It’s a strategy at that point. Do you go ask for bids now, do you say, based on this interest, are we going to push it a couple of weeks? Let that go before you solicit your first bids. Market timing, it’s very much a little bit of art and a little bit of science, but let’s imagine you get past that. You get the idea, then you go and you select a buyer. All right. At this point, LOI underway, you get the LOI signed.

Spencer Burton (28:07):

Before that, let me stop you just for a second to talk about the process. I think is a key skill of a disposition professional, in an institutional process, generally, you’ll go to a final round of say three buyers, and then there are what are called buyer interviews. At that point in time, that’s the first point in time that the decision-makers and the buyer teams are talking directly with the decision-makers on the seller’s team, which is really a disposition team, and maybe someone from the investment committee. A great disposition manager knows the right questions to ask of the buyer and be able to ascertain which buyer is most likely to perform based on that interview. Now, sometimes it’s easy. You get Blackstone showing up and it’s okay. But other times it’s a real estate private equity firm, and it’s like, “Okay, how realistic is it, and where’s your capital. What’s your approval process.” Knowing the right questions to ask really is key at that stage.

Michael Belasco (29:19):

Great. At this point, we select a buyer, LOI, PSA, and you’re basically just flipping the mirror. When we went through the sourcing signing up, getting through the PSA, the negotiation, due diligence comes, you’re on the other side of that now, and you are managing that process. We had talked about you being the one providing all the due diligence materials now, rather than receiving and doing your own due diligence, and you being open and letting the buying team know all the details. You’re the one being requested to get the estoppels and get the SNDA’s going, and that stuff. You just flip the mirror and then the DD team, depending on how it works. In our process, our DD team goes to the backside on the sales side and ends up facilitating, because we have all the data and all the info, so it’s between that and the management team.

Spencer Burton (30:15):

That’s very much now a doing tasks. Now, let me add one other thing between there, which is negotiation. We’ve said negotiation, we probably should have brought this up on the sourcing side as well. The negotiation is essential at this point, and it’s interesting in commercial real estate. Negotiation it’s like politics. There is this strategizing that goes on, there’s these tactics. An example in the space that we’re in currently, is when’s the right time to submit an offer? On the reverse side, on the disposition side, when’s the right time to counter how to manage that process? But on the sourcing side, it’s like, when’s the right time to submit an offer? Then imagine that you want to buy it and you talk to the broker and there are no offers in yet. Do you submit an offer then, or do you wait?

Spencer Burton (31:23):

Because you wait and possibly some other offers come in and you’re not the first person to the party, is that a good thing or a bad thing? There’s a tactic involved with that. Then the whole negotiation, which around price and where you are. On the disposition side, exact same thing happens. When we talk LOI, it’s you want to push, but you don’t want to push too hard where you scare them away, but push hard enough where you get more maybe than you had initially hoped. Those negotiation skills are critical for this position.

Michael Belasco (32:04):

Then I guess we should go a little bit more into once it gets to the PSA, that’s when the lawyers get involved and there’s more of the nitty gritty details that are ironed up, and usually all the major business points are solidified. It’s the same thing whatever side of the table you’re on. Then again, it’s the inverse of the DD process. They’ll commit earnest money. They have their time, their window, and it goes from there, and we’ve already explained in another episode, so our listeners can go back and learn about the due diligence process. We did gloss over the closing a bit. I don’t think we actually covered that in-

Sam Carlson (32:45):

We’re okay to skip that.

Spencer Burton (32:47):

Anyone at a title company right now or an attorney I’m sure is rolling their eyes, but that’s for another day.

Sam Carlson (32:54):

There’s a lot. Let’s just say there’s an entire season on this.

Michael Belasco (32:58):

We depend heavily on our lawyers and title companies. In fact, we’ve developed very good relationships with them because they are indispensable. It’s just hard. There’s so many details in it, and it’s not really where we thrive, but yeah it’s the same process. You’re just on the other side of the mirror.

Sam Carlson (33:19):

This is exciting. It’s exciting to bring the season to a close in a way to where we really walked through the entire process. Today we’re reaping the rewards of the strategy that we talked about in episode two. I would like to get both of your guys’ summaries on season three, your takes, your highlights, what you’ve enjoyed most, just turn it back around before we end the season. I think we’ll probably do like we did with season two. I quite enjoyed it, and I think you guys did too. Supplementary podcasts that we’ll attach to this, but this has been a body of work where we’ve really gone through the process. I want to bring the thing home and get your guys’ take. Let’s go ahead and start with you Michael, if we can start there. Just your take on season three.

Michael Belasco (34:18):

I, from a personal perspective, thought it was incredible for my own personal value add. I didn’t expect to learn as much as I did just from talking to both of you. It’s been awesome in that regard. I think this format is just allows us … We have a topic, we go a little bit stray from it, but all of it is to the benefit I think of everybody listening to us. I’m very excited for this to go out and reach all the listeners. I think there’s just tons of value add things that have come up between the three of us just iterating between our conversation.

Sam Carlson (34:52):

I agree. Spencer?

Spencer Burton (34:55):

It’s fun to tell stories, and in the process of remembering these stories, it was really fulfilling to look back and say, “Wow.” It’s been a rich career thus far, and all that I’ve learned, usually through the mistakes that I’ve made over the years, and how now I can learn from that and create new stories and new adventures going forward. The other thing I’ll say, and this is just advice, especially to those who are younger in the industry. But even if you’re mid career and you haven’t done this, keep a deal sheet of every deal that either you’ve underwritten to some degree or, and especially anything that you’ve closed. I’ve done that since early in my career. It’s really actually fun, where I can go back and I can look at everything that I’ve either underwritten or closed.

Spencer Burton (36:06):

That’s how we were able to come up with that, with 30 some odd billion. Michael had done a similar exercise, 30 some odd billion that we’ve underwritten 8.1 billion I believe that we’ve closed between the two of us. What’s even cooler, which we didn’t have a chance to do, is we can then on my deal sheet, I break it out by property type. I actually have the property name. I have some notes about the deal. I can look back and go, that was right. That I learned that on that particular deal. For me, it’s healthy for introspection, aware from time to time I look back at it and those are lessons learned that will hopefully make me better going forward. But also at some point you’re going to be looking for a new job.

Spencer Burton (36:55):

At some point you may be raising capital, and you need to be able to confirm the experience, the seasoning that you have, and having that deal sheet it’s so incredibly valuable. That’s my advice. If you didn’t get anything out of this season, it’s that you are working in your career, whether you’re young and just getting started, or you’re more established, you’re learning things from every deal that you’re working on, and keep track of those, make notes of those, and keep that long-term, it’ll benefit you.

Sam Carlson (37:30):

I feel like I got so much out of this season. I feel like I got more than almost anybody. I beat you, Michael. I guarantee that. I’m sure I will leave a lot of things out just because it’s the amount of benefit I’ve gotten just by going through the entire process, invaluable. But a couple of key takeaways, the one that just kept rearing its ugly head, or its beautiful head in this case would be the value of your network and your relationships. Real estate is a people driven business. Whether that’s through making deals, getting deals done, getting the right deals, getting help, getting things done quicker or solving problems, whatever it is in this business, the people around you will make it. I’ll take the other side of that coin, be the person that people want to have in their network. Learn, be better, become as full stack as possible.

Sam Carlson (38:37):

Don’t narrow yourself down to one thing so much that you can’t see things from other people’s perspective, which is my third thing. The perspective. What is today? Monday. Saturday when we walked through mostly the deal doing, we saw a lot of things through Spencer’s eyes. Today we’ve been seeing a lot of things through your eyes, and through the debt side, through the equity side. If you can do nothing else than look at your career, whatever struggles you’re having, just look at it through the eyes of the person that you’re dealing with. Because again, we’re in a people business. I think that what we try and do at Adventures in CRE, this podcast, audio series, the website, the events that we have coming up, the accelerator, everything that we do, it started out as a kernel of, “Hey, we’re going to be share models.”

Sam Carlson (39:35):

That’s where you guys started. That’s where the Michael and Spencer started the story. Today we continue that legacy by sharing content and information to help level up and learn things that can translate to a tactical nature at some sense, but really are based in a root understanding of success. When I look at this season, the whole compilation of everything that we’ve been doing, I feel very good about, just listen, if we taught you nothing else, you got principles of success out of this. That you got to be the right person and everything else that you do should benefit from that. I’m super excited. I’m excited for you, the viewer or the listener to give your feedback on this season. Questions, suggestions for future episodes. We would love to have them. Thanks for watching, thanks for listening, and we’ll see you on the next episode of Adventures in CRE Audio Series.

Announcer (40:36):

Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Adventures in CRE Audio Series. For show notes and additional resources, head over to www.adventuresincre.com/audio series. Would you like to learn real estate financial modeling in a matter of weeks and do it with zero guesswork? If so, the A CRE accelerator is for you. The accelerator is a step-by-step case-based program designed to teach you exactly what you need to know, and in the order, you need to know it. So you can gain both the knowledge and experience to take your career to the next level. To see if the accelerator is right for you. Go to www.adventuresincre.com/accelerator.